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Delay, Dont Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle

Do you want to improve your health and lose weight? Are you tired of feeling sluggish and bloated? If so, then it's time to try intermittent fasting!

Intermittent fasting is a powerful tool that can help you reset your metabolism, burn fat, and improve your overall health. But it can be tough to get started.

That's why we're excited to have Gin Stephens on the show today.

Gin Stephens is the author of the NY Times and USA Today bestseller Fast. Feast. Repeat., and Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle, an Amazon #1 best seller in the weight loss category, as well as Clean(ish): Eat (Mostly) Clean, Live (Mainly) Clean, and Unlock Your Body's Natural Ability to Self-Clean (2022), another Amazon #1 bestseller in several categories. Gin has lived the intermittent fasting lifestyle since 2014, losing over 80 pounds. She is the host of 2 top-ranked podcasts: Intermittent Fasting Stories and the Life Lessons podcast (w/Sheri Bullock). You can join her private community by going to ginstephens.com/community.

Gin will share her secrets for success with intermittent fasting, including how to overcome obstacles, what to eat (and what not to eat), and how to make fasting a sustainable lifestyle.

In this episode, you'll learn:

► The benefits of intermittent fasting

► How to get started with intermittent fasting

► How to overcome obstacles to success

► What to eat (and what not to eat) while intermittent fasting

► How to make intermittent fasting a sustainable lifestyle

So, if you're ready to learn how to lose weight, feel great, and take control of your health, then this episode is for you! Tune in now and start your journey to better health today.

(00:00): So the big question is how do women over 40, like us keep weight off, have great energy balance. Our hormones in our moods feel sexy and confident and master midlife. If you're like most of us, you are not getting the answers you need and remain confused and pretty hopeless to ever feel like yourself. Again. As an OB GYN, I had to discover for myself the truth about what creates a rock, solid metabolism, lasting weight loss, and supercharged energy. After 40 in order to lose a hundred pounds and fix my fatigue. Now I'm on a mission. This podcast is designed to share the natural tools you need for impactful results. And to give you clarity on the answers to your midlife metabolism challenges, join me for tangible natural strategies to crush the hormone imbalances you are facing and help you get unstuck from the sidelines of life. My name is Dr. Kyrin Dunston. Welcome to The Hormone Prescription Podcast.

(00:53): Hey everybody. And welcome back to another episode of The Hormone Prescription with Dr. Kyrin. Thank you so much for joining me today. I have a special guest you're gonna love when I met her recently at one of our masterminds. I loved her immediately and you will too. She is a wealth of knowledge and just so warm and relatable and has such a gentle way of making what I can kind of make really complicated, pretty easy and simple to follow, which is a gift. So I'll tell you a little bit about her, and then we'll get started. Gin Stephens is the author of the New York Times and USA Today Best seller, Fast. Feast. Repeat., and Delay, Don't Deny: Living an Intermittent Fasting Lifestyle, an Amazon number one bestseller in the weight loss category, as well as Clean(ish): Eat (Mostly) Clean, Live (Mainly) Clean, and Unlock Your Body's Natural Ability to Self-Clean (2022), another Amazon. Number one best seller in several categories. Jen has lived the intermittent fasting lifestyle since 2014, losing over 80 pounds. Choose the host of two top rank podcast, Intermittent Fasting Stories and The Life Lessons podcast with Sheri Bullock. And you can join her private community by going to ginstephens.com/community. Welcome Gin.

(02:18): Well, so nice to see you. Good to be here with you today.

(02:22): Yeah, I'm so excited to have you here. And we are doing a live podcast interview with masterclass. So some of the ladies from my midlife metabolism programs are here and they're gonna get to listen and watch live and then ask questions later, which is a super fun benefit of being in my programs. So I think they'll really enjoy that. So how did you get started with intermittent fasting? It sounds like you were overweight. What was going on for you?

(02:54): Yeah, I was actually obese and <laugh>, it's a hard word to say, right? I was 210 pounds at five five, and you know, I have a long weight loss, weight loss story, just like so many people do that involves lots of years of yo-yoing, right? Probably most women and men these days can relate to that. And I was always looking for a way to lose the weight and keep it off for good, but it never happened. You know, I, I thought about this recently and it just struck me, you know, I've been at my goal now since 2015, I've been in the same goal range, wearing the same clothes. This is the first time I'm 53. I just turned 53. This is the only time in my life from birth that I have maintained a stable weight for a period of time. Cause you know, the first, you know, whatever it is, 18 years you're growing.

(03:42): So I was growing and then right for the next years I was yo-yoing. I mean, there was always a time when every year I was getting bigger than I was dieting, then I was gaining and I was losing and it just kept going. And like probably so many people listening the yo-yo years get, get higher. Right. You lose some, then you gain more, then you lose a little, then you gain more. And so that's pretty much what happened to me. You know, I did all the things starting from my first diet. Really. I was counting calories during college. Like so many of us were mm-hmm <affirmative> and my first like real diet though, I think was the low fat era. When I graduated from college, it was the early nineties. So I started with the low, low fat loss. A lot of weight, looked awful, ate a lot of snack Wells <laugh> oh my gosh.

(04:29):I remember those. And also, do you remember SpaghettiOs had zero grams of fat, zero grams of that 11 on spaghetti and snack Wells, which is certainly not what, what they meant with eat low fat. Right. But that's what I was doing. Probably most people too, but I just kept trying everything over the years, you know? And it got wackier and wackier from the HCG diet lost a lot of weight gained even more back. I took doctor prescribed diet pills. It was super get those. They'll give 'em to you. You lose the weight long as you keep taking 'em. Right. But that was no good, but it basically, I trashed my metabolism with all of those diets. Now I first heard about intermittent fasting, probably around 2009. You know, I was the person that would go to the Amazon weight loss category and look at all the books that were bestsellers and see what people were doing.

(05:21): And I would buy them. And actually I would first read the comments, right? What everybody said on Amazon, looking for that next best diet. So it's no surprise that I stumbled upon intermittent fasting and I would dabble in it here and there from oh nine to 14. But you know, we didn't know anything about it. Back then. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> everyone who was writing about intermittent fasting in the early days all said it works cause you're eating fewer calories. So here are some ways to eat fewer calories through intermittent fasting. And there was like a five hour window that was Dr. Burt hearing's fast five plan. There was alternate daily fasting. You could do. You were having a down day followed by an up day. You know, one day you did it one day, you didn't. And but every single plan talked about, it's just calorie restriction in an eating window or every other day.

(06:08): So I would dabble in it. But you know, I didn't understand so many things. I know now I didn't understand about insulin. I didn't understand about being metabolically flexible and what that means. And so I dabbled and my body never became adapted to fasting any of the times that I tried it. Cause I didn't give it long enough. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I also didn't understand something. I now call the clean fast, which you can talk about a little bit later, but basically I lived in the hard part and it never got to be something that felt easy or good mm-hmm <affirmative> so I just kept dieting and all those years still wasn't doing well until finally in 2014, I went on a family cruise and we were in the Caribbean for seven days. It was a wonderful trip, but I looked at the pictures of me with my family and like those formal night pictures on a cruise ship.

(06:59): Mm-Hmm <affirmative> yeah. I was like, who is that in the picture? I looked like myself, but like inflated, like someone had put a pump in my mouth and my whole body just felt inflated. And I remember on that trip, we did this wonderful excursion where we were hiking up the Mayan ruins and it was really hard to carry my body, which was 80 pounds heavier than it is today. Up those Mayan ruins up those steps. I was like, I just can't do this. And so I was just miserable the whole time. So I came back home and said, this is the time I've gotta do something. Well, I turned to HCG one more time. <Laugh> and of course, you know, I was like, I can't do this ever again. I can't do this ever again. So I quit that. And that summer, August of 2014, I found my way back to intermittent fasting for the last time.

(07:43): Meaning that I stuck with it. There's the difference. I stuck with it and I never quit doing it. And so I wanted to lose 75 pounds. I lost those 75, went on to lose about five more. And I've been maintaining the loss since 2015, which is wow. Astonishing. Because like I said, I had never been the same weight season after season after season. So that's, what's, what's changed for me is maintenance has been, you know, pretty easy. My honesty pants get a little tight. I know what to do. You know, I've now been through menopause. I went through that at 51 and yeah, my body just keeps feeling great and intermittent fasting is not so secret. <Laugh>

(08:27): Well, not so secret secret, that sounds like a book. So I know everybody will dive into the details, but I know some people are thinking really Jen, you didn't exercise and work out at the gym, like crazy. Really Jen, you didn't, you know this, that or the other, none of that.

(08:43): No. And you know, really, I've never been someone who loved to do a lot of exercise. And interestingly enough, I had my DNA analyzed through 23. Me ran it through a couple of different third party websites. That'll tell you things about yourself. I was so not surprised when it came to exercise, my DNA report said not likely to lose weight with exercise and some people get the opposite. Some people have a genetic profile where exercise is required for them to lose weight. But for me, I mean, I, I do exercise. Don't get me wrong. I'm now doing water aerobics. We just moved. I do water aerobics every single day that I can get to it. And I'm an active person. I'm not sedentary, but exercise has never been that. Like I never once started an exercise program and bam, the weight came off. It's always had to be something else.

(09:30): Right. Okay, great. So let's dive into it. You talked about when intermittent fasting first came out, there were different people with different plans and you kind of bopped around and tried different ones. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> talk about what was the plan that you initially started with? Are you still with that? What are the details kind of, and then also maybe break down some lingo. I think hopefully most people have heard of intermittent fasting so they know what you're feeding window needs, right? You're fasting interval, things like that, but maybe they don't so feel free to fill in the basics. I'm always doing the podcast as a listener and some people are gonna be newbies and others are gonna be experts. So I try to keep them all along for the ride. So feel free to detail us.

(10:13): All right. Well the most common intermittent fasting approach is the daily eating window approach, which is formally known as time restricted eating, which some people like a lot better because you know, the word fasting is a little scary. You know, I didn't make this up. There's a saying that that goes along with fasting and it's brilliant. And the saying goes like this diets are easy in contemplation, but hard in execution. Right. You know, we've all like thought about a new diet, oh, this is gonna be fabulous. But then we crash and burn. Cause it's really hard to keep up a restrictive diet long term. Well, fasting is completely opposite. Fasting is hard in contemplation, but it's easy in execution. It only sounds like it's gonna be hard. You know, what was really hard was all the diets that I was doing when I was eating, you know, small meals all throughout the day that was miserable.

(11:02): The low calorie diets I did before. But with intermittent fasting, once your body adapts and you find what really works well for you and your body is metabolically flexible. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> you get to figure out what your ideal eating window is, what time of day that works best for you. We're not all the same. I have an evening eating window. Some of my foundations, I mentioned earlier with Dr. Burt, hearing's fast five approach and he's 19 five. That's what he did himself. And that was one of the very earliest. I think that was the earliest book out about eating windows. He just kind of figured it out and he didn't start eating till five and he had a five hour eating window. So that's fast five. He started five. You go for five now. Of course, that's not exactly how I do it. I don't wait till five to open my window, but that's what worked for him.

(11:50): So his program was wait till five, then have a five hour eating window. He's like, or you can move it around. However you want. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, which is really what I did. So a five hour eating window is a great eating window length for me. And I feel better when I opened my window in the afternoon today I opened three 30 and I had like a little snack. And then I had dinner with my husband before we started talking today. We usually don't eat till around seven, but I ate a little earlier today just for y'all mm-hmm <affirmative> and, and my window is closed. So I probably had a three hour eating window today. And that's just how it worked because by the time we're done, I'm not gonna want to eat again. And I've had enough. I'm not hungry anymore, but it's a very flexible way to live.

(12:31): But just this morning, you know, you mentioned, I have a podcast called intermittent fasting stories today. I interviewed, I think it was number 249 on the podcast and she has a morning eating window. She opens her eating window at seven 30 in the morning and she has a light breakfast. And then she has a really hearty lunch around one o'clock then she closes her window and that's it. And then she fast till the next morning. So she has about a six hour eating window every day. And that works really well for her, but hers is in the morning. So, you know, if you hear people telling you, here's how you must do it, here's how you must structure your day. Here's when the best time to have it is ignore all that. My mission in life is to teach people that you're very much a study of one when it comes to how long your eating window should be, how long your fast should be, what you're eating and your eating window, all of that is gonna be very individual for you. And I want people to feel empowered, to experiment and find what feels right to them. I have a chapter in my book, fast FET repeat, and it's called tweak it till it's easy. And I mean that mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's your role as someone who's trying something to tweak it until it feels easy till it feels like a lifestyle, because when you find what works best for you, it really does become an easy lifestyle.

(13:50): Yeah. I hear that from people I've tried it and my biggest challenge, and maybe we can talk about this a little cause I'm sure I'm not the only one is with the exercise. I work out a hard first thing in the morning. And what was happening is I was trying to open my feeding window in the afternoon and I was working out like a feed in the morning and I just started having, literally I noticed my skin sagging and then someone said to me, well, you're probably losing collagen cuz you're not getting enough protein cuz you're working out like that. I was like, you know what? That's true. And so how do you navigate this with exercise?

(14:29): Well, again, that is you haven't found your sweet spot. You, that was obviously not your sweet spot. And also I would like to ask when you were fasting, were you fasting clean? What were you having to drink during the fast

(14:42): Water?

(14:43): Okay. Just water. Well then that's good. That's <crosstalk> that's important. Cause a lot of people are not. So I wanted to throw that out there, but you know, it sounds to me like perhaps with the amount of working out that you were doing waiting until afternoon to open your eating window was not your sweet spot.

(14:59): Right?

(14:59): You gotta squeak. It feel it's easy.

(15:01): But my challenge is so I need to eat because I'm gonna go work out, but I'm really not hungry until, so it's like,

(15:10): Well, so the issue was the skin sagging and that was it.

(15:14): No, I also didn't feel good. Okay.

(15:16): Well if you didn't feel good then that's not a good sign. You wanna feel good? Yeah. Cause the key is you wanna feel good, but like for me, and I guess I'm doing water aerobics. That's not maybe as intense as what you're doing, but a lot of people in the fasting community are able to work out hard and then keep asking for hours. How long were, did you try it? How long did you give it?

(15:35): Oh gosh, I'd have to look back. But it was for a few months.

(15:38): Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well by then, you know, you would expect that you would be adapted by then. So it sounds like to me, perhaps your eating window, wasn't best for you to wait till the late afternoon.

(15:49): Yeah. So I know that's one thing I struggled with. I've heard other people talking about it too. And then the other concern I know a lot of people have, maybe you can speak to, this is getting enough protein in, in a shorter eating window.

(16:04): You know, that's an interesting question. We do get that a lot. And something to keep in mind is not all of our protein needs have to come from the foods that we're eating. Now that might sound crazy. So let me explain. You've heard ology before, right? Yeah. Otology is our, body's basically it's our body's recycling and upcycling system, but I was an elementary teacher for 28 years. So I like to explain things in a simple way. It's our body's upcycling program. So when you're in the fasted state, your body is looking around, well, nothing's coming in, let's see what's around. And so your body breaks down old proteins and recycles them and can use those old proteins to build new things. So when you're fasting clean, now, if you're eating all day long, like breakfast, snack, lunch snack that actually Downes Autophy and downregulated Autophy, it gets worse and worse.

(17:01): The older we get mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so, you know, living in the modern world where we are eating all the time, most people are down regulated. Autophy leads to a lot of the problems that come along with aging. But when we're fasting, especially when we're fasting clean, we have increased Autophy. So Autophy is upregulated. We're better able to recycle those old junky proteins. So I'm able to build muscle. When I, when I just started doing my water aerobics in the past month or so since we just moved to a new, a new place, new neighborhood doing the water aerobics, I am building muscle, working out in the fasted state every morning, just doing that water aerobics. And I haven't increased the amount of protein that I'm eating, but I mean maybe I have without realizing it because I also am a big believer in the protein leverage hypothesis. Have you heard that that before?

(17:49): No. Talk about that.

(17:51): All right. Well, I can't remember who came up with a protein leverage hypothesis. Was it professor Nokes? I'm not sure Tim Nokes maybe, but basically it says that we have in our bodies, like we're a lot smarter than we give ourselves credit for our bodies, let us know what they need. So if you're not getting enough protein, your body is going to crave more protein until you give it what it needs. And so, you know, if, if you were like, you're eating and you're finding that you're unsatisfied, that might be your body saying, Hey, we need more protein. It's not gonna let you not get enough protein over time. And so, you know, when you think about what I said, auto, our body is recycling the protein plus during your eating window, if you are hungry for protein, we just really might not need also as much as we've been led to believe Dr. Jason fun. I'm sure you're familiar with his work. He has a great blog post about that. I think it's called how much protein is excessive or something. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And basically that people are always worried about not getting enough protein when really it's less of an issue than we realize.

(18:59): Okay. So is that something that you usually recommend that people track? How many grams of protein they're getting? Yeah. So it's more of an intuitive, let your body decide what it was. Well,

(19:09): You know, really, like I said, our bodies are pretty smart and I haven't noticed muscle loss. Like I said, I'm 53. I don't do anything harder than water aerobics. <Laugh> with my little weights in the water and I've not had trouble with muscle wasting and I've been doing fasting for years now and I was going to happen. It would've happened, right?

(19:29): Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. Definitely would've but I know that's something

(19:32): That I have large communities and I left Facebook in early 20, 21 and we had almost half a million group members when I left. And one other thing about fasting is when, when you're fasting clean, we have upregulated human growth hormone. So when you have upregulated human growth hormone and you have a lot of apathy going on and you're nourishing your body well during your eating window, you're absolutely going to be fine. You know, if you do notice that, oh gosh, you know, maybe I'm losing a little muscle, just add a little 13, but you don't have to count it. It doesn't have to be that hard. We've got people doing all sorts of things in our community, building muscle, like crazy, just eating intuitively with their bodies and not counting in a single macro.

(20:17): Yeah. Let's dive into that. Cause we're so we come from that calorie counting culture, the macro culture and this many grams of this and this many grams of that. And people oftentimes will even say to me like, well, how many grams of protein carbs fats should I be getting and what types and they want, they want the rules and I'm pretty much an intuitive eater. So <laugh>, but I will tell people if they ask, so what is your take on that? Well,

(20:45): I mean, how did people ever survive before we had <laugh>? I mean, right. I mean, like if you go back in time, you know, people were not like dropping dead from if food was plentiful, any environment in the world where food was plentiful, people just knew what to eat and how much to eat. Right. They did not make it hard. And if you go to like the blue zones, now that mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you're familiar with the blue zones. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> five pockets in the world. National geographic has researched them where people live to be over a hundred. If you walked into some of those blue zones and said, let's talk about macros. They would look at you. Like you're nuts. Those people are living to be over a hundred. They're not counting a single calorie. They're not counting a single macro they're living long and healthy lives. And there's a lot of factors that go together to make that happen. But they're eating real foods like their ancestors did. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and they're not counting a thing.

(21:41): Right. And so that's how you usually teach and work with peoples just intuitively. But there are some people who would try that and they would go for the Hogan dos and the Ben and Jerry's and you know, all the things.

(21:54): Here's the beautiful thing about intermittent fasting. There's something we call appetite correction. And Dr. Bur hut hearing came up with that phrase as well. But it's just a beautiful phrase. And it means that your body will direct you to what you need as far as how much food you need. And also what you know, most of us find when we're intermittent faster, as you, you know, people may start off eating the standard American diet, but over time your tastes change. Yes. Weirdest thing, you actually tune back into your hunger and satiety signals. Our bodies do not count calories. Our bodies count nutrients. So when you are intuitive and you are not just cramming every emotion down all day long with food, like I'm gonna say, I used to do when I was obese, I was eating for morning till night, because of course that was also what we were told to do.

(22:46): We were told to eat breakfast within 30 minutes of your feet, hitting the floor and have frequent snacks, cuz that would boost your metabolism. That's what we were all told and how come I was 210 pounds. Right? I was doing all the things. And so I could not hear any signals from my body at that point. But now that I'm an intermittent faster, like, oh the Brussels sprouts look good. And so you may start off eating the standard American diet, but over time, it's amazing how your body directs you to like the first time you eat something that used to be your favorite thing. Like I can remember the first time I had a, a Starbucks, pumpkin spice latte after I'd lost the weight and been maintaining for a while. And that had always been my favorite, you know, when it was latte season and my window was open one day I was at target, there was a Starbucks in there. I'm like, I'm gonna have a pumpkin spice latte and my window was open. It's gonna be delicious. And I tasted it and I'm like, why does this taste like bug spray? This tastes awful. And I'm like, they have changed the recipe of no, they didn't change the recipe. <Laugh> my taste buds changed. The more real food you eat, the more you're fasting and living that lifestyle, your body just, it really changes in a way you just couldn't expect.

(24:01): Yeah. You know, for me it was CBOs. When I weighed 2 43, I would eat Cinnabons

(24:07): And those are not even good. Are they? I had one in an airport in like maybe 2018 cuz you know, it smelled so good. I was with my sister, we were flying down. It tasted like, like poison.

(24:18): Yes. Like poison. It tastes like chemicals,

(24:21): Chemicals. Exactly.

(24:22): Right. So I love the intuitive and I noticed for me, if I'm not stressed, I will intuitively eat very healthy things. And it's only when the stress comes that I want sugar.

(24:35): They're looking for soothing. Right.

(24:38): They're right. All right. So we talked about that. No macros, I loved what you said. That's a quotable. Our bodies do not cap calories counts, nutrients mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then in terms of, you know, you hear so many things, are you also recommending a flexible kind of intuitive window that changes all the time based on how you feel or do you find that people do better when they set it and stick to it? And

(25:07): That depends on the person that's gonna be very individual. There are some people that need more structure just because if it's too loosey goosey, then the next minute they're not fasting anymore. Right. Right. Like it's so flexible. They forgot to do it. So in fast Fe repeat, I have something called the 28 day fast start. And that is a period of time when people are, are learning how to do it. Your body is developing the skills that it needs behind the scenes to flip that metabolic switch to fat burning. And so that you're metabolically flexible. And so it is very much more like here is how you're going to do it day to day as your body is adapting. But then after those 28 days, that's where the tweak till a dizzy part comes in, and you start to figure out what works for you.

(25:50): And there's a lot to be said for mixing things up from day to day, you know, like one day, if you have a one-hour eating window, cuz you were super busy and crazy that day, but that doesn't mean you need to do that tomorrow. Tomorrow. You're probably gonna need a little bit longer. So we don't want to be too rigid and overs restricting for our bodies. So it's really like for me, I would just stick to, you know, as long as I have like a five-hour eating window, pretty much from day to day, I could move it around. When I was losing weight, that really worked well for me. Other people find they might need an eight-hour eating window. Maybe five hours is too restrictive, but someone else might find they need a four-hour eating window because they tend to overeat. If they eat for five, it just really is all about learning about yourself and responding to how it's going.

(26:35): I love that. That's something that I talk about all the time I called your body. She, you know, talked to her what she's gonna tell you what she needs, but we are so socialized out of listening internally and we're so externally directed. So it really is this re acquaintance. And it sounds like you are really teaching that too. Like your body knows what it needs and what it doesn't need. And if

(27:00): It doesn't feel good, it's telling you for a reason, there's something that is not feeling good. Like what you were doing before your body told you that was not working. That was not your asking protocol for whatever reason you hadn't found it yet.

(27:14): No, and I haven't, I haven't

(27:15): Tried it person.

(27:16): No, see that's a thing I'm not hungry till the afternoon, but I like to work out. So I haven't figured out how to fix that. So I just stopped doing it. I'm like, this is not working. I don't feel good. I'm not doing it, but

(27:29): I guess it might be hard for you to work out later in the day. Yeah.

(27:33): Yeah. It's a morning thing. So, well, I'll figure it out. I'm wondering you have this great podcast where people talk about their stories with intermittent fasting. Could you share some of your favorite stories from people you've had on the podcast?

(27:48): You know, one of the most fun that I've had that I enjoyed so very much, I talked to a guest and she had been on extreme weight loss that extreme makeover, weight loss edition, Jackie arena is her name. And she's been in my community from way back when we were on Facebook. She's been in my group now she's in my off Facebook, private community. And she told her story, she lost over 200 pounds. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> in a year of doing extreme makeover, weight loss edition. And she talked about, and it was fascinating to talk to her because when I wrote fast Fe repeat, I talked about weight loss and all of that. Are you familiar with the Minnesota starvation experiments that they

(28:28): Take? No, what's

(28:30): That well in the Minnesota starvation experiments, basically trying to figure out, you know, how much food do people need to live? What happens if we really restrict how much that people are eating? So they had these conscientious objectors who weren't fighting in world war II and they're like, we'll use y'all. And so they put 'em on this, like I think a college campus in Minnesota and they studied them and what these were men and they put 'em on 1500 or something calories a day mm-hmm <affirmative>, which we probably are like, that's just what you do. You eat 1500 calories a day, but they studied them on this. What they called that a starvation diet. And so it was fascinating. I, I write about this in the introduction to fast FEAS repeat, but it talked about all the things they went through. Like they started to become obsessed with food.

(29:13): They started to have feelings of wanting to bend and all these things that were happening to their bodies as they were restricting, restricting, restricting. And when I talked to Jackie, I mean it was like textbooks when the, the experiences that she went through going through that extreme weight loss, cuz it was basically just eat less and less and less and less. As you continue to lose that much weight, you have to just eat less and even more, less, more restriction, less and less and more and more working out. We've all seen those shows. And so by the end of it, I mean she had tanked her hormones. She was no longer having cycles. She had textbook. I mean obviously the Minnesota starvation experiment was men, but everything that they went through, as far as like on that, that starvation regimen she was going through and it took her years to get her hormones back in a good place.

(30:05): And so, I mean that just lets you know how dangerous diet culture is, but she, after that, you know, she regained weight obviously, cuz your body is fighting back mm-hmm <affirmative> whenever you have, you know, they also did the biggest loser studies did you? Right. I saw that one. That was so interesting. Similar kind of a thing. They restricted so much that everything's, their metabolism slowed down. And then of course, as soon as they couldn't keep up that level, bam here came the way back and then their metabolisms were slower than when they had started. Right. So it was just fascinating to talk to her. And then she found intermittent fasting how that has been completely different and how she has finally been able to lose the weight through intermittent fasting and found peace around food that, that she didn't have before. And it was just so interesting to hear the, all the theory basically she's lived it all the, the bad diet theory <laugh> followed watching.

(31:03): She's a living example. She's a living example of every single theory that I talk about in fast fees, repeat of like, here's what they found. Here's what the research says. She's lived it and all of her experiences really show it. So I loved that episode. I mean, I've talked to, like I said, 249 today and most of them are just normal people. One that I really loved was Dr. Mark Matson. Are you familiar with his work? No, I haven't heard of him. You may have heard of his work and not known it. Do you remember in the end of 2019, when there was that big new England journal of medicine article about fasting, it came out on like December 26th, 2019 and suddenly, and fasting was all over the news. Yes. People were talking about how healthy it was. Well, Dr. Mark Matson was the author of that new England journal of medicine article.

(31:51): And it turns out he wrote it because a lot of doctors were having patients starting to come in to their practice and saying I'm doing intermittent fasting, but the doctors didn't really know a lot about it. So they were like, we need to know more about this. And so the new England journal of medicine reached out to Dr. Mathson and asked him to write that review article. So it's a review article. So it covers all the science, all the, the best information that's out there. And it was really amazing when that came out in 2019, because I was running these Facebook groups and when people would join, we're like, why do you wanna join? And people always said, I wanna lose weight. I wanna lose weight. But all of a sudden people started saying, I wanna get healthy. I wanna live longer. I wanna prevent Alzheimer's because suddenly the conversation was shifted and people realized intermittent fasting is a very healthy way to live.

(32:38): And I really credit mark Mathson for that. But he came on my podcast and intermittent fasting stories and talked about his story. And you know, he worked at John's Hopkins for his whole research career mm-hmm <affirmative> and he actually started doing intermittent fasting in the eighties wow. As grad student or something and just how he, he naturally gravitated towards, but he studied fasting and the effects on the brain, he's a neurological researcher, and you know, the anti-Alzheimer's properties and all the things like that and how it helps our neurological health in so many ways. But it was really fascinating to talk to him. And then everything in between just, you know, normal people who are fascinating. I've talked to doctors who live a lifestyle. I've talked to the mom next door, the dad next door. And I love talking to everybody because in 249 stories, everyone has something new to bring to the table to talk about how intermittent fasting has changed their life.

(33:31): I love that you mentioned something earlier about this starvation experiment, which I didn't know about. That sounds horrible. What is the difference with calorie restriction, where you're eating all the time and the food obsession and the wanting to binge versus having a shortened eating and a great

(33:52): Question. And I love that you asked it. Okay. So let's talk about how our bodies get fueled. Most people, especially now, if you look around, most people are carrying a whole lot of energy around in their bodies, right?

(34:04): <Laugh> a lot of energy equals fat. You're

(34:06): Carrying a lot of calories or like, like a calorie suit, right? People are wearing a calorie suit and those calories, if you can access them, the calories you have in stored fat, they provide great fuel for your body. And the key is you wanna be able to tap into those fat stores and use that energy. Well, that's where low calorie diets, where you're eating all day long. That's where it breaks down. We're not meant to eat tiny little amounts of food all day long, like a little drip, drip of a feeding tube or something. We're not meant to do that. And it has to do with the hormone. Insulin. Insulin is our storage hormone. And when insulin is high and when insulin levels are high, like if someone has insulin resistance type two diabetes, basically you have high fasted levels of insulin. Your insulin's high all the time.

(34:57): Insulin is anti lipolytic, meaning it locks down your fat stores. So when you have high levels of insulin all the time, you have a really hard time accessing your stored fat and burning it for fuel. We have all experienced that when you're doing the low calorie diet and you're having your tiny little breakfast and you're drinking your diet soda, and then you're having little snack. You are keeping your insulin high all the time. And I'll talk in a minute about why diet sodas do that and why they're not part of the clean fast, because they cause an insulin response. But in the meantime, your insulin is up, up, up all the time. You cannot tap into your fat stores very well. It's like they're locked away, right? So you are not well fueled. You're having a low calorie diet, but because insulin is high that the low calorie diet isn't fueling you and you can't get to your fat stores.

(35:47): So now your body has to, downregulate your metabolism, it's in a panic. Well now how fasting is different. Yeah. Once your metabolically flexible and you're fasting and you're keeping your insulin levels low during the fast, suddenly your body can now see all that fat too, and your body can start using the fat for fuel. And so just as I talked about your meeting, some of your protein needs through Autophy you're meeting some of your fuel needs through the fat that your body is burning. So we actually have one study that was really interesting. They followed people over a 72 hour F. Now I'm not recommending people start bathing for 72 hours. I eat every day. But when they were studying the people over these 72 hours, they looked at what their metabolic rate was doing. And everyone had like a baseline metabolic, right when they started.

(36:38): And then as time went on, their metabolic rate actually went up over the course of this fast. It was a 72 hour fast, like I said, and then it reached a peak at a certain point. And then it started to trim slowly down again. And so by the time they got to the 72, the end of the 72 hours, their metabolic rate was actually higher than it had been at baseline, but trending downward. So, you know, what does that tell us that tells us that fasting, when we start tapping into those fast stores, our bodies get going and they can actually ramp up